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a good election promise
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bastardos



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if there were as many rogue bagpipers in the country as there is handgun violence, i would burn every god-damn set of 'pipes in the county good sir!!
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Shoot the Band



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bastardos wrote:
if there were as many rogue bagpipers in the country as there is handgun violence, i would burn every god-damn set of 'pipes in the county good sir!!


There are a whole bunch of shitty guitar players in Saint John. Can we burn all the guitars?
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bastardos



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fine by me.
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Daren



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a bad decision for them to try to enforce laws like this. I know that guns aren't a very useful tool, but the fact is that they do exist. When they make things illegal it does lower commercial sales of these kinds of products but it also encourages the youth, among others to get their hands on it because it's illegal, and obviously that makes in ten times cooler to have. Drugs are getting to be very popular, I know they always have been but access comes at a very early age these days. So if we have all of these hotheaded teens with illegal guns in the drug scene, things in Canada are going to get more violent on the streets.
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theVoid



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck hand guns. I'm all for this.
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moderncountrygentleman



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know a few gun enthusiasts. i know they'll have their grumbles about a handgun ban, but think about it. do you want hand guns around? i don't. i think they have some type of cool appeal, maybe its the little cowboy inside, but there's something slick about a pistol. you just don't need handguns. a rifle or shotgun'll do. its far less inconspicuous to mug me with a stolen rifle than a stolen handgun.

seriously, hand guns are made so that people can easily shoot other people. we don't need them. jimmy had it right, we should drop them to the bottom of the sea. earth is oversaturated with small arms and it is damn well time that we curbed their production, sale, and distribution. look at automatic rifles too. who fucking needs that? some people need a quick boot right in the bobsie twins.

i'm for a ban that would see insane penalties for the trafficing of handguns. insane. obviously not for a guy who smuggled one 38 across the border, but someone who brings a trunk load of pistols across in order to sell them on the illegal market needs to be swiftly beaten by the law.

i haven't looked at the particulars of the Liberal plan, but i support the idea of gun control and a ban on the mass market sale of handguns. the proliferation of illegal handguns is going to get worse if we all sit back and let gun companies keep pumping out their death machines.
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moderncountrygentleman



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't fuck with the pipes. unless they can't play them. everyone who can or could play the pipes should have a set. a bagpipe in every home, that'll be my promise to the canadian public.
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Daren



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't think banning handguns will get rid of handguns. It's similar to when they raised tobacco prices, it didn't work.
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kellymaraschino



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this city, in my experience, there are a lot more youth than you would think carrying handguns. In this case they are not getting them on the black market (usually), they are getting them from their families' homes.
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el jefe
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Does anyone else see a contradiction when people say that crimes aren't committed with legal guns anyway then say this ban will increase the black market for hand guns?

- If somebody has a good reason to think they need protecion in their homes, they can get a rifle or a shotgun. Why do they NEED a hand gun?

- All of the supposed good reasons for having hand guns don't outweigh the bad things. What if I want some nuclear weapons for my collection? Can I have some armor piercing bullets for my armored manquin target practice? Can I decorate my house with crack? I promise I won't blow anything up, kill any cops or smoke the crack.
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Shoot the Band



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kellymaraschino wrote:
In this city, in my experience, there are a lot more youth than you would think carrying handguns. In this case they are not getting them on the black market (usually), they are getting them from their families' homes.


It is illegal to have a handgun that is not in a locked case unless you are on a legally recognized shooting range as it is. So the parents and youth are guilty of illegal storage and transportation already.

If no one is paying attention to following or enforcing that law--how will a ban be any different?
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worn out



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go Green Motherfuckers
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zmd
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ban all guns now. we don't need em for anything at all. no need. hunting is not a need, target shooting is not a need. get rid of tonnes of em, and there will be less to be stolen from young boys like me by someone close to them and used in a violent crime. i had no need of the gun, thank god cuz i let it fall into a non functioning state by neglect...so it couln't be fired at the poor girl...course, she didnt know that, so im pretty sure it was terifying for her.
fuck guns.
id rather take my chances of being shot while not owning one, then beind shot while owning one, or worse, having to shoot someone or having someone shot by my gun
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:O
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zmd
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thought i told you that story
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*shakes*
no....
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zmd
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'll tell ya when i get there...something im too shy to go into all the details on here about....but, i got the important part of the point out for my contribution to the gun thing....dont get me wrong tho, i've shot lots of guns...a tonne of fun, but its a fun i would let go to get rid of guns. similarly, i love week, i'd gladly see it all go away to get rid of crack and such. unrealistic i know, but, its the point of it.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

panik wrote:
But the point is that you can't ban PEOPLE so you try to make it harder for the psycho's to do the shit they do instead. We all know "guns don't kill people, people do" and all that garb...


I already mentioned that.
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zmd
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


over simplifying things a bit arent we? nuclear bombs dont wipe out hiroshima, ugly little men with power issues do.
lets speed up the arms race.

a six year old who shoots another with a gun is hardly to blame...frankly, a 16 year is barely able to understand what they are doing with a gun
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theVoid



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I hate that stupid quote. If the fucking guns weren't there, there'd be less people killing people. Don't you think? A gun can't kill a person if another person isn't firing it.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theVoid wrote:
Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I hate that stupid quote. If the fucking guns weren't there, there'd be less people killing people. Don't you think? A gun can't kill a person if another person isn't firing it.


That's true, but if the gun ain't there, the knife is, or the baseball bat. I'd rather get shot than get a baseball bat to the head. You can't stop violent people from being violent by taking one of their many weapons away. You can't even ban hand guns effectively. People will still get them. Look at crack and meth. Kind of banned, but readily available. A hand gun ban wouldn't do fuck all. Violence would still occur, people will still get killed, fuck, maybe even more people will get killed, no gun to shot em/injure them, might as well beat them to a pulp and kill them rather than shoot and run away.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zmd wrote:
Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


over simplifying things a bit arent we? nuclear bombs dont wipe out hiroshima, ugly little men with power issues do.
lets speed up the arms race.

a six year old who shoots another with a gun is hardly to blame...frankly, a 16 year is barely able to understand what they are doing with a gun


You're right, guns are but a miniscule part of the problem. If a 16 year old doesn't understand what they are doing with a gun, the fucking legal age to drive should be raised to the age at which they do. Can kill more people at once in a car than you can with a handgun.
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a way better chance of avoiding, or defending myself against, all of those other weapons.
Cross the street, Run like fuck, etc. Guns go the extra distance I tend to keep when avoiding other people on the street.
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Daren



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

panik wrote:
I have a way better chance of avoiding, or defending myself against, all of those other weapons.
Cross the street, Run like fuck, etc. Guns go the extra distance I tend to keep when avoiding other people on the street.

I don't think that's a very good arguement. Something like knife can be used without notice in broad daylight. I don't think there is any way to resolve an issue like this. There are too many areas to disagree.
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theVoid



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A handgun can be fired from a distance, and the shot is fast as fuck.
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I still have a better chance once I see the weapon. Or if someone is trying to rape me using a gun compared to a knife. I have a way better chance of getting away from them and not being shot in the back as I run away.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

panik wrote:
I have a way better chance of avoiding, or defending myself against, all of those other weapons.
Cross the street, Run like fuck, etc. Guns go the extra distance I tend to keep when avoiding other people on the street.


Ha, buddy of mine in Halifax was walking down gottingen(sp) street and saw a few dudes on the corner with no shirts on. So, he thought he should cross the street. He did and one yelled over, "hey buddy, give me your shirt" he says "fuck that, you'll have to beat it off me pal", so the one talking starts to walk, slowly, across the street. So what did he do? Complied, took the shirt off, gave it to him, and walked the rest of the way home without a shirt being mistaken by everyone else as one of those dudes. No weapon, but he still lost his shirt, why run when the risks outweigh the cost? Guy could have threatened him with a pillow and he would have done it to avoid serious consequences. If people want to hurt you or want something from you, they'll get it regardless of what weapon they have at their disposal.
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Daren



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if someone were walking past you very causally and they quickly jabbed you in the kidney with their knife? There are a lot of ways to use weapons.
Weapon control is the only way something like this could even begin to work. Gun control is only shaving off a small layer of the problem.
Although I don't think the world can exist without violence.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theVoid wrote:
A handgun can be fired from a distance, and the shot is fast as fuck.



Takes an aim though, knife, needle, bat, whatever, is precision, they get you where they want ya.
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis, Travis Brown wrote:

Ha, buddy of mine in Halifax was walking down gottingen(sp) street and saw a few dudes on the corner with no shirts on. So, he thought he should cross the street. He did and one yelled over, "hey buddy, give me your shirt" he says "fuck that, you'll have to beat it off me pal", so the one talking starts to walk, slowly, across the street. So what did he do? .......



i think thats different then what i was referring to.


Last edited by panik on Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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theVoid



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, and if the thief in that case had a handgun and got the response ""fuck that, you'll have to beat it off me pal," he just might be inclined to fire a bullet instead of walking towards his victim.
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panik



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But shaving off is still a lot better than nothing at all.
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Daren



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banning hand-guns won't change the world.
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zmd
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not supposed to change the world. just make it a bit better. is the solution then to NOT BAN THE GUNS? morons, a knife has an alternate purpose that is necesity as does a bat or a car...these are modern day necesity. guns are not.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theVoid wrote:
Yeah, and if the thief in that case had a handgun and got the response ""fuck that, you'll have to beat it off me pal," he just might be inclined to fire a bullet instead of walking towards his victim.


If he were so inclined so be it. He also could have sprinted at him and beat the hell out of him. The point is that violence can only be avoided for so long. If someone wants to hurt you, they will, gun or no gun.

Gun control is a small element of a much larger problem. The Liberal government knows this. And, believe it or not, they know people buy into what appears on the surface to be a viable solution to something. They know this won't do fuck all to allieviate violence in major cities. Perhaps it might in stink john, but how often do you hear of people being shot around here?? Think about the public at large, other than rural residents of course, they've bought it hook line and sinker. And what about the $500 tax break on textbooks for students?? Uh, this just in, most students don't pay taxes as it is. But of course, there will be a large portion of students feeling rosy inside because of this and vote pc.


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theVoid



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you have against less people being shot?
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zmd wrote:
not supposed to change the world. just make it a bit better. is the solution then to NOT BAN THE GUNS? morons, a knife has an alternate purpose that is necesity as does a bat or a car...these are modern day necesity. guns are not.


How does a ban make anything better??? It's not like we can carry the damn things around in our back pockets. You think the solution to the problem of e or meth in the country is to ban it?? Yeah, look at how well that works. What's crack's alternative purpose? Not a necessity, banned, and yet a major problem. If the solution was as clear cut as to ban guns, it would have been done a long time ago. Social programs, get the thugs off the street, avert their attention, have people become more responsible for there actions. Look at China, no violence, but they still have guns. Social control is tops over there.
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zmd
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
zmd wrote:
not supposed to change the world. just make it a bit better. is the solution then to NOT BAN THE GUNS? morons, a knife has an alternate purpose that is necesity as does a bat or a car...these are modern day necesity. guns are not.


How does a ban make anything better??? It's not like we can carry the damn things around in our back pockets. You think the solution to the problem of e or meth in the country is to ban it?? Yeah, look at how well that works. What's crack's alternative purpose? Not a necessity, banned, and yet a major problem. If the solution was as clear cut as to ban guns, it would have been done a long time ago. Social programs, get the thugs off the street, avert their attention, have people become more responsible for there actions. Look at China, no violence, but they still have guns. Social control is tops over there.


heheh, freedom vs. social control. hard argument.
but, once again, point missed. i did say
Quote:
unrealistic i know.
i do however not see your problem with starting with a ban on all guns...where is the loss on that. i have never said it is any unltimate solution
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theVoid wrote:
What do you have against less people being shot?


Nothing, I'm against Martin's argument that banning fire arms will free the country of violence. It will not stop the shooting.

The proposed ban, however, is getting poor reviews from other politicians, some activists who deal with street crime and some experts.

"Most kinds of guns are already illegal ..." said Tammy Landau, a criminologist at Ryerson University in Toronto. "The concern is with illegal guns and this isn't going to go very far in dealing with that."

A ban will make no difference, said Rev. Harry Lehotsky, an activist in Winnipeg.

"They're illegal anyway. The cops have a million ways, reasons, to take those guns away from these guys already," he said. "So it's totally irrelevant."
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sadnesswithinme



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]Nothing, I'm against Martin's argument that banning fire arms will free the country of violence. It will not stop the shooting.

The proposed ban, however, is getting poor reviews from other politicians, some activists who deal with street crime and some experts.

"Most kinds of guns are already illegal ..." said Tammy Landau, a criminologist at Ryerson University in Toronto. "The concern is with illegal guns and this isn't going to go very far in dealing with that."

A ban will make no difference, said Rev. Harry Lehotsky, an activist in Winnipeg.

"They're illegal anyway. The cops have a million ways, reasons, to take those guns away from these guys already," he said. "So it's totally irrelevant."[/quote]




What the hell are you talking about?
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sadnesswithinme



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS. I have no idea how to properly quote people. Hope it doesn't offend anyone.
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zmd wrote:
Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
zmd wrote:
not supposed to change the world. just make it a bit better. is the solution then to NOT BAN THE GUNS? morons, a knife has an alternate purpose that is necesity as does a bat or a car...these are modern day necesity. guns are not.


How does a ban make anything better??? It's not like we can carry the damn things around in our back pockets. You think the solution to the problem of e or meth in the country is to ban it?? Yeah, look at how well that works. What's crack's alternative purpose? Not a necessity, banned, and yet a major problem. If the solution was as clear cut as to ban guns, it would have been done a long time ago. Social programs, get the thugs off the street, avert their attention, have people become more responsible for there actions. Look at China, no violence, but they still have guns. Social control is tops over there.


heheh, freedom vs. social control. hard argument.
but, once again, point missed. i did say
Quote:
unrealistic i know.
i do however not see your problem with starting with a ban on all guns...where is the loss on that. i have never said it is any unltimate solution


A ban on all guns would never happen. A ban on hand guns might be slightly realistic, although completely irrelevant. It's arbitrary. It wouldn't solve anything. Why not focus attention and money on what really contributes to violence?
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Travis, Travis Brown



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadnesswithinme wrote:
Quote:
Nothing, I'm against Martin's argument that banning fire arms will free the country of violence. It will not stop the shooting.

The proposed ban, however, is getting poor reviews from other politicians, some activists who deal with street crime and some experts.

"Most kinds of guns are already illegal ..." said Tammy Landau, a criminologist at Ryerson University in Toronto. "The concern is with illegal guns and this isn't going to go very far in dealing with that."

A ban will make no difference, said Rev. Harry Lehotsky, an activist in Winnipeg.

"They're illegal anyway. The cops have a million ways, reasons, to take those guns away from these guys already," he said. "So it's totally irrelevant."





What the hell are you talking about?


Let me break it down, this:

Nothing, I'm against Martin's argument that banning fire arms will free the country of violence. It will not stop the shooting.

was in response to a question about what do I have against less people being shot.

The rest was quoted from the original article, post number one, illustrating that a ban on guns would do fuck all.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadnesswithinme wrote:
PS. I have no idea how to properly quote people. Hope it doesn't offend anyone.


Revolutionary, click the quote button just above a persons post.
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sadnesswithinme



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis Brown - I don't like your arguement. It has too many flaws. Keep it up though.
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zmd
With vigor!


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 16161
Location: skiing down a mobius ski hill of eddies design

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
zmd wrote:
Travis, Travis Brown wrote:
zmd wrote:
not supposed to change the world. just make it a bit better. is the solution then to NOT BAN THE GUNS? morons, a knife has an alternate purpose that is necesity as does a bat or a car...these are modern day necesity. guns are not.


How does a ban make anything better??? It's not like we can carry the damn things around in our back pockets. You think the solution to the problem of e or meth in the country is to ban it?? Yeah, look at how well that works. What's crack's alternative purpose? Not a necessity, banned, and yet a major problem. If the solution was as clear cut as to ban guns, it would have been done a long time ago. Social programs, get the thugs off the street, avert their attention, have people become more responsible for there actions. Look at China, no violence, but they still have guns. Social control is tops over there.


heheh, freedom vs. social control. hard argument.
but, once again, point missed. i did say
Quote:
unrealistic i know.
i do however not see your problem with starting with a ban on all guns...where is the loss on that. i have never said it is any unltimate solution


A ban on all guns would never happen. A ban on hand guns might be slightly realistic, although completely irrelevant. It's arbitrary. It wouldn't solve anything. Why not focus attention and money on what really contributes to violence?


increase social programs...ALSO...teach more a school but, get rid of the guns too.
the six year olds dont buy the guns off the street, they get em where from where daddy hides em in the liquor cabinet.
now, tell me how making it hard for daddy to acquire that pistol in the first place wouldnt help this situation please
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Travis, Travis Brown



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadnesswithinme wrote:
Travis Brown - I don't like your arguement. It has too many flaws. Keep it up though.


Ok, it may not be revolutionary, I'm sorry, point taken.
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theVoid



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 7630

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess my main problem is this: some are saying it's a big waste of money and won't accomplish anything.

I say if it saves 1 life, it is all worth it. If you disagree, would you still disagree if it was your life being saved? This isn't just addressed to Travis, though it looks like it with my wording.
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andrew todd



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2641
Location: Quebec, Quebec

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the government shouldn't punish those who are legit gun owners. Most handgun violence occurs with people owning these guns illegally. I like shooting guns. I shoot m16s, shotguns and 9mm handguns at ranges every year with the military and know lots of civilian gun fanatics who own and use handguns legally for the purpose of target shooting. The only people you are hurting are these people. If someone wants to own a gun legally right now with the intent on using it for violence they can. If someone wants to own a gun illegally for violent purposes after the time that this bill passes then they still could. Sure gun violence sucks.. but canada has a low rate compared to our neighbours down south.. the government should spend their money on something that counts and would make a difference. I dont see any difference here.
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