Giraffecycle.com Forum Index Giraffecycle.com
Giraffecycle Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

What's the deal on Canterbury Street?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Giraffecycle.com Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nchenier
<3 <3 BUNNY <3 <3 TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL <3


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nchenier wrote:
Shoot the Band wrote:
except resources


that's sums it up there.

of course I meant investigate in the legal sense where said investigation leads to charges.

besides, didn't you see our 9/11 ten year anniversary investigative piece?


forgot the link
http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/rss/article/1438676
_________________
Noel Chenier
----------------------
Photographer and teacher
My new online photography community, sign up!
http://www.learnphoto.ca
Portfolio
http://www.noelchenier.ca

Photo Blog
http://noelchenier.blogspot.com
nchenier@nbnet.nb.ca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website    
Matt Bradshaw



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
hooligans



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 7553
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nchenier wrote:

besides, didn't you see our 9/11 ten year anniversary investigative piece?


INSIDE JOB
_________________
Hawk wrote:
Out of respect for Whitney Houston, at my next gig, I'll play a bunch of Aretha Franklin, Gladys Night, Donna Summer and Diana Ross. I don't own any of Whitney's crap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
brufrog
I alos knwo wiine bar sthat hav ewine


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 13310
Location: at the pad, beer in sticky fingers

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that Globe story sure revealed everything!
_________________
"I am very optimistic. I'm a sceptic, but not a pessimist. Despite my doleful-looking face." - EC

https://www.facebook.com/Craig.Pinhey.FrogsPad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
nchenier
<3 <3 BUNNY <3 <3 TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL <3


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brufrog wrote:
Wow that Globe story sure revealed everything!


Julian Sher must have come across this posting, and thought, gee, I should look into this...
_________________
Noel Chenier
----------------------
Photographer and teacher
My new online photography community, sign up!
http://www.learnphoto.ca
Portfolio
http://www.noelchenier.ca

Photo Blog
http://noelchenier.blogspot.com
nchenier@nbnet.nb.ca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brufrog wrote:
Wow that Globe story sure revealed everything!


It had information that the TJ has not yet reported, afaik. I didn't know that some of the other Olands had been asked about a drywall hammer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
brufrog
I alos knwo wiine bar sthat hav ewine


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 13310
Location: at the pad, beer in sticky fingers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoot the Band wrote:
brufrog wrote:
Wow that Globe story sure revealed everything!


It had information that the TJ has not yet reported, afaik. I didn't know that some of the other Olands had been asked about a drywall hammer.


Yes, there was that 1 thing. Who is Julian Sher, anyway?
_________________
"I am very optimistic. I'm a sceptic, but not a pessimist. Despite my doleful-looking face." - EC

https://www.facebook.com/Craig.Pinhey.FrogsPad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brufrog wrote:
Who is Julian Sher, anyway?


http://www.juliansher.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
brufrog
I alos knwo wiine bar sthat hav ewine


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 13310
Location: at the pad, beer in sticky fingers

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool. He must have come to Sj to research this story I guess? Maybe he is still digging and we will get some more stuff soon...
_________________
"I am very optimistic. I'm a sceptic, but not a pessimist. Despite my doleful-looking face." - EC

https://www.facebook.com/Craig.Pinhey.FrogsPad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
adam
What up, biotech?


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 12019
Location: Saint John

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was contacted (by telephone, at about 10:30 pm) concerning that story by one of the writer's 'research assistants' or somesuch on July 13th. I was asked to describe the building to do some scene-setting for the article. I told the fellow (whose name I'll omit here, but he is from SJ) that I wasn't terribly comfortable talking about the matter and requested an email. He was fairly persistent but agreed.

This is the email that I received from him a few hours later:

Hey Adam, just following up on our phone call. I'm helping out the Globe and Mail Atlantic reporter on the Richard Oland story - talking to people I know from the city to help set the scene, quash rumours and get facts straight.

The reason I got a hold of you is that I'd heard you were familiar with the jam space and therefore the building, and I knew who you were (the owner of the building is, sadly, assumedly not on giraffecycle). I'm just looking to get a description of the building from the inside - how many ways in/out (aside from front entrance), how many tenants are on each floor, and how recently restored the building is. Does the jam space take up the whole third floor? Honestly, just a few visual questions to help paint a better visual.


I'm sure I'm not the only person he solicited for stuff like this. I declined to comment largely because I really didn't (and don't) want any further attention drawn to the murder-building where I make loud noise, but yeah.

Incidentally, there are fewer than 23 stairs to reach the second floor.
_________________
Sometimes very clearheaded and sometimes a doofus. Sometimes very cordial and sometimes aloof.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying they aren't doing the best possible job. I actually think as police forces go Saint John's is pretty damn good. But at some point, as a tax-payer funded agency, I do feel like the police need to explain some of what is being done/has been done to bring justice for what was a very high profile murder.

And maybe the time isn't yet. I'm no expert. But there will come a point where citizens will need some assurances they are being served and protected.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
el josho



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Internet!

Wanted to interject, mainly because the key points in this discussion have affected me pretty directly. I'm the guy who contacted Adam back in July, as quoted in the above email. (Hi Adam. I can't remember if you played guitar or bass in Next to Red, but the lead guitar in the bridge of Concrete Observer remains one of my favourite riffs of all time.)

I write — well, currently edit, moreso — for the Globe. Back in the summer, I got assigned to come back to SJ and cover this. I grew up there, and lived in NB until I finished school. I used to post (but mostly troll, I guess) here back in 2005. I stumbled upon this thread again solely because I was looking for shows going on over Christmas.

I got sent to SJ to cover the murder, largely because I grew up here. I knew how the city's power dynamics work, and pitched my editor that I could contextualize the story, rather than let the paper assert vast, anonymous, likely unverified claims that the murder was by an axe.

Wound up spending the entire week calling everyone I knew, everyone I had heard of, that knew the family. Went around Rothesay, Saint John, looking for clues. Contacted every officer I've ever met, and more. Police would give nothing, not even that the property searchers that week were connected to the case. Contacted every businessperson I've ever heard of and tried to get more. Called Oland's fishing buddies. I even DMed a few people who posted on this thread who said they had some kind of idea of what happened — because once I get a rumour, I can start to corroborate it with official sources.

Here are the three stories I wrote.

Sorry if anyone I DMed felt like I was putting you in an awkward position. From an outsider's perspective, I know that's how you can feel. But all I was looking for was anything — anything at all — that I could use, with complete respect for anonymity, as information to corroborate with official sources or people close to the case. It's standard procedure, but it makes me uncomfortable, too, to put people in an uncomfortable position like that.

To get the heart of the argument that happened over media coverage: I want, so fucking badly, to write another story on this case. But even though so many people I talked to linked the murder to one person, there is absolutely no way anyone can make that kind of link without an official charge, lest we completely and obviously slander that person's reputation. I'm in a different role in the Globe now, else I'd probably be calling the SJ police as often as I could, like the Telegraph. I'd do anything to update this story, but no media outlet will rehash old news.

Actually, the Julian Sher story — our attempt to update — did rehash some old news. The guy is an pretty incredibly respected investigative journalist, and he could turn up little else than I did, other than a conversation with one of Dick Oland's best friends. (He did get into the building, which I didn't get access to the week I was back home.) A lot else was stuff I had reported back in the summer.

Sher has gotten cameras behind Taliban lines for a documentary, but couldn't get a source in the Saint John police force. That says a lot about the secrecy around the case. That doesn't even count the obvious secrecy that comes into play when a member of a major family is killed in a city where connections mean so much.

So: Unless we either get some official announcement, or someone calls a reporter with a significant tip they can corrobrate, there won't be many stories. In other news, I'm in town December 21-29, if someone wants to talk about this over a beer.[/i]


Last edited by el josho on Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger    
el josho



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also,

adam wrote:
'research assistants'


I wish I could afford research assistants.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger    
hooligans



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 7553
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

el josho wrote:
Hi, Internet!
Wall -o-text



HI JOSH
_________________
Hawk wrote:
Out of respect for Whitney Houston, at my next gig, I'll play a bunch of Aretha Franklin, Gladys Night, Donna Summer and Diana Ross. I don't own any of Whitney's crap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post, el josho. Thanks for that.

My only comment, and I realize whether you agree or disagree it's out of your control, as much as I understand not wanting to write the same story over and over, it's the media who needs to hold the various police forces and the machinery to whom they report to account. They have a role to play in applying pressure by not letting this story fall out of the public eye.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask and ye shall receive. http://bit.ly/w14zTJ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
wilkins



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 2654
Location: The upper part of downtown.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Hallmark' evidence in Oland homicide, says Crown
_________________
Paint a picture, visions only grey. Light your pillow. Lay back. Watch the flames. I'll tell a story but no one would listen that long. It's hard to imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
nchenier
<3 <3 BUNNY <3 <3 TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL <3


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilkins wrote:
'Hallmark' evidence in Oland homicide, says Crown


wow look at that, Brunswick News is also trying to find out what the evidence is...
_________________
Noel Chenier
----------------------
Photographer and teacher
My new online photography community, sign up!
http://www.learnphoto.ca
Portfolio
http://www.noelchenier.ca

Photo Blog
http://noelchenier.blogspot.com
nchenier@nbnet.nb.ca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website    
brufrog
I alos knwo wiine bar sthat hav ewine


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 13310
Location: at the pad, beer in sticky fingers

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VERY interesting development!
_________________
"I am very optimistic. I'm a sceptic, but not a pessimist. Despite my doleful-looking face." - EC

https://www.facebook.com/Craig.Pinhey.FrogsPad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacques Poitras just tweeted that the judge has, unsurprisingly, ruled against CBC and Brunswick News.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
countdownhype



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 2444

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My grapevine sources seem to say that there will be an arrest coming, it just really does take longer than you'd imagine to do all the forensic lab stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
hooligans



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 7553
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

countdownhype wrote:
My grapevine sources seem to say that there will be an arrest coming, it just really does take longer than you'd imagine to do all the forensic lab stuff.



bull fucking shit. i watch CSI, I'd know.

it takes 5 minutes.
_________________
Hawk wrote:
Out of respect for Whitney Houston, at my next gig, I'll play a bunch of Aretha Franklin, Gladys Night, Donna Summer and Diana Ross. I don't own any of Whitney's crap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
say uncle



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like this one is going to go unsolved
_________________
http://www.quonsetrock.ca/
http://www.reverbnation.com/therubberbandcan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website    
wilkins



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 2654
Location: The upper part of downtown.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

say uncle wrote:
looks like this one is going to go unsolved

Indeed.


_________________
Paint a picture, visions only grey. Light your pillow. Lay back. Watch the flames. I'll tell a story but no one would listen that long. It's hard to imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
wilkins



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 2654
Location: The upper part of downtown.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

countdownhype wrote:
My grapevine sources seem to say that there will be an arrest coming, it just really does take longer than you'd imagine to do all the forensic lab stuff.

Ahem?

And this was from Dec. 30: http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/30/six-months-later-richard-oland-murder-remains-shrouded-in-mystery/
_________________
Paint a picture, visions only grey. Light your pillow. Lay back. Watch the flames. I'll tell a story but no one would listen that long. It's hard to imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
wilkins



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 2654
Location: The upper part of downtown.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oland homicide investigation also ongoing.
_________________
Paint a picture, visions only grey. Light your pillow. Lay back. Watch the flames. I'll tell a story but no one would listen that long. It's hard to imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
sic



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 637
Location: Saint John

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can't get any bump in priority at all for a nearly year old violent homicide? How overworked are these crime labs, ffs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
countdownhype



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 2444

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems crazy...if I was the murderer I would just take off for South America or something...

SAINT JOHN – It could be summertime before police get forensic lab results for the Richard Oland homicide investigation, retired police investigators say.

With significant backlogs at RCMP forensic laboratories – there are only a handful of such labs to deal with criminal cases from across the country – it wouldn’t be uncommon to wait anywhere from nine months to a year, said Eric Fiander, deputy director of the Atlantic Police Academy in Prince Edward Island.

“If they’ve got a pile of exhibits, then they’ll wait quite a while before they get it,” said Fiander, the retired inspector in charge of criminal investigations at the Fredericton Police Force. “It’s a game for a very patient person.”

Chief Bill Reid of the Saint John Police Force says investigators are waiting for lab test results for a “significant number” of pieces of evidence in the Oland homicide.

The results of those forensic tests are essential in getting to the bottom of what happened in the businessman’s uptown office last July, Reid said earlier this week.

“We had seized a significant number of exhibits, and they have to be processed, and they have to be analyzed,” Reid said after a meeting of the Saint John Board of Police Commissioners on Tuesday night.

“That takes a long, long time. So we have to be patient with the work that third parties are doing on our behalf.”

Reid would not specify what evidence were sent away for analysis.

There have been no arrests eight months after the murder of Oland, a 69-year-old businessman who 30 years ago left Moosehead Breweries, now run by his brother, Derek Oland.

Police have remained guarded about information on one of the most highly publicized criminal cases to emerge from Saint John in years.

Questioned by reporters Tuesday, Reid said he couldn’t say if police were any closer to making an arrest.

“I don’t have a crystal ball to give you that information because we’re relying on a third party to give us that information,” he said, referring to the lab results.

“We’re not the only police agency in Canada that’s asking crime labs to do work for them, so we submit and we wait.”

Without the skills and equipment to analyze DNA and other forensic evidence in-house, police send exhibits to RCMP laboratories, Sgt. Mark Smith of Saint John’s forensic identification section confirmed.

Fiander said a more serious crime may get bumped up to the front of the line, but with many murder investigations happening in Canada, the wait could still be long.

For example, the town of New Glasgow, N.S., is waiting for answers on the mysterious death of 19-year-old Amber Kirwan, whose body was found on Nov. 5. Police have made no arrests in that case either, Fiander said.

Forensic lab results can make or break the case, he said.

“If you’ve got a smoking gun, then the exhibits are secondary, but if you don’t have the smoking gun, then your exhibits are your entire case,” he said.

Guy Colton, a retired Toronto forensics police investigator now teaching at Trent University, said labs will typically accept only around 10 samples at a time – usually taking one or two months to submit the results of each batch.

Colton said he has worked on investigations that have taken up to 15 months before police had enough evidence to make an arrest.

But he said it would be shallow to assume the forensic evidence is the “be all and end all” of the case.

“In a major case, there’s all kinds of fragments. It’s a puzzle,” he said, adding toxicology results and other investigation techniques can take time.

The forensic evidence could be in, but police might still need to match the DNA profile to a suspect, for instance.

“Some of these investigations can go on for close to a year,” he said.

Colton said there is a growing demand for forensic evidence in court.

Based on what he has heard about the Oland case, Colton said he would suggest the Saint John police – who wore white jumpsuits while gathering evidence of the murder scene – are dealing with “trace” evidence. Clothing fibres or hair are typical examples of trace evidence.

“That means you’re going really, really slow and you’re looking for microscopic stuff,” Colton said.

Since Oland’s body was found the morning of July 7, 2011, in his Canterbury Street office for Far End Corp., an investment firm, police have only officially ruled Oland’s death as a homicide, and they have said that Oland likely knew his killer.

Saint John’s police chief has never revealed the cause of death, whether there is a murder weapon, or whether there are any suspects.

“It does not get settled in an hour on a TV show because it is a very serious and significant crime,” Reid said in an interview with the Telegraph-Journal before Christmas. “Errors can be made, so if you can pursue this patiently and properly, the outcomes are more predictable. And that’s exactly the route we’re going now.”

Fiander, who has worked on a number of homicides, and whose brother, Paul Fiander, is chief of the Miramichi Police Force, said he knows the feeling.

“There’s always public pressure, there’s pressure from the media, there’s pressure from within the department, there’s pressure from the chief of police,” he said.

“It comes from all sides, and there’s not a darn thing you can do about it. It’s a waiting game.”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

countdownhype wrote:
Seems crazy...if I was the murderer I would just take off for South America or something...


Unless you were pretty certain to get away with it and you had a good thing going here. If, let's say, you were trying to keep it from your family and friends, taking off for another country may be seen as evidence of your guilt. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
Scott M



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: your arsenal

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thing we're building prisons instead of creating a few more crime labs.
_________________
www.potzrebie.com | http://themarshallway.tumblr.com/ | http://timewounds.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger    
countdownhype



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 2444

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoot the Band wrote:
countdownhype wrote:
Seems crazy...if I was the murderer I would just take off for South America or something...


Unless you were pretty certain to get away with it and you had a good thing going here. If, let's say, you were trying to keep it from your family and friends, taking off for another country may be seen as evidence of your guilt. :P


Normally I would say most murderers get caught in the end but I suppose with a good lawyer anything is possible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
wilkins



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 2654
Location: The upper part of downtown.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm beginning to think we'll never know what happened or whodunit.
_________________
Paint a picture, visions only grey. Light your pillow. Lay back. Watch the flames. I'll tell a story but no one would listen that long. It's hard to imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
brufrog
I alos knwo wiine bar sthat hav ewine


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 13310
Location: at the pad, beer in sticky fingers

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody got murdered?

Doesn't ring a bell...
_________________
"I am very optimistic. I'm a sceptic, but not a pessimist. Despite my doleful-looking face." - EC

https://www.facebook.com/Craig.Pinhey.FrogsPad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
wilkins



Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 2654
Location: The upper part of downtown.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been a year.
_________________
Paint a picture, visions only grey. Light your pillow. Lay back. Watch the flames. I'll tell a story but no one would listen that long. It's hard to imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
marc



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 2689
Location: Saint John, N.B.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/07/18/nb-oland-homicide-solve-soon-chief.html
_________________
06/23/07
------------------
"But, how else, without the drugs, will the kazoo become gigantic?"
-ZMD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger    
Jabroni



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 19305

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Quote:
I've got information man! New shit has come to light!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
Drumwaiter
gros pamplemousse


Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 2303
Location: Saint John, NB

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/07/31/nb-richard-old-search-warrants-sealed.html
_________________
Mathieu Benoit
brufrog wrote:
...it is a fickle creature, this half animal, half motion device.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Jones has been live tweeting from a hearing about the release of documents this morning.

https://twitter.com/cbcjones
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
portcityadam



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: window shopping for new clothes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I can tell, there's really no good reason why these documents haven't been released. The longer the docs are withheld, the worse it looks on the SJ Police. The notion that the police can keep all of their methods and findings completely secret a year after the investigation began, is disconcerting. And their suggestion that everything must wait while a piece of forensic evidence is processed, seems silly.

Seems like preferential treatment by SJ police to protect old money.
_________________
www.itsadammowery.bandcamp.com


Last edited by portcityadam on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
Scott M



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: your arsenal

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

portcityadam wrote:
From what I can tell, there's really no good reason why these documents haven't been released. The longer the docs are withheld, the worse it looks on the SJ Police. The notion that the police can keep all of their methods and findings completely secret a year after the investigation began, is disconcerting. And their suggestion that everything must wait while a piece of forensic evidence is processed, is silly.

Seems like preferential treatment by SJ police to protect old money.


I was talking to my mother about this the other night; she works for the justice dept. on PEI. This kind of delay is not at all unusual, and the primary reason for it is usually a police force not wanting to make a charge without supporting evidence and having the charge thrown out of court. And the main reason there is no supporting evidence in this case is the slow progress of DNA testing due to lack of facilities in Canada (a lab in Halifax was closed not long ago). Murders get priority at the labs, but they are backed up for months, if not years.

It's not acceptable of course, because in the meantime a murderer walks free, but with a case that apparently hangs exclusively on DNA evidence, the police have little choice. Outraged Canadians should be demanding that we fund a few more DNA processing labs instead of whatever else Herr Harper is trying to sell in his crime bill.
_________________
www.potzrebie.com | http://themarshallway.tumblr.com/ | http://timewounds.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger    
songles
Cliff Clavinesque


Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 9091
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott M wrote:
It's not acceptable of course, because in the meantime a murderer walks free, but with a case that apparently hangs exclusively on DNA evidence, the police have little choice. Outraged Canadians should be demanding that we fund a few more DNA processing labs instead of whatever else Herr Harper is trying to sell in his crime bill.

I think we need to stop coddling criminal DNA. Lock that DNA up and throw away the key, is what I say.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message    
portcityadam



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: window shopping for new clothes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

songles wrote:
Scott M wrote:
It's not acceptable of course, because in the meantime a murderer walks free, but with a case that apparently hangs exclusively on DNA evidence, the police have little choice. Outraged Canadians should be demanding that we fund a few more DNA processing labs instead of whatever else Herr Harper is trying to sell in his crime bill.

I think we need to stop coddling criminal DNA. Lock that DNA up and throw away the key, is what I say.


Isn't the good thing about DNA evidence that its not time sensitive?

I understand that the results take a while to process, but if these search warrants reveal that someone in the family (or anyone for that matter) is the subject of ongoing DNA analysis it is in no way a presumption of guilt for that party. Right?

I'm pretty sure the public have a right to know the status of the investigation (especially documents from a very early stage) as they fund the force. But I don't see the absolute relation between the release of these documents and immediate charges being filed, if that's what's being suggested.
_________________
www.itsadammowery.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
portcityadam



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: window shopping for new clothes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
Scott M



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: your arsenal

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

portcityadam wrote:
I understand that the results take a while to process, but if these search warrants reveal that someone in the family (or anyone for that matter) is the subject of ongoing DNA analysis it is in no way a presumption of guilt for that party. Right?

I'm pretty sure the public have a right to know the status of the investigation (especially documents from a very early stage) as they fund the force. But I don't see the absolute relation between the release of these documents and immediate charges being filed, if that's what's being suggested.


You'd have to ask a lawyer (or cop). I suspect the main reason for the court sealing documents is to prevent rampant public speculation in a case where no charges have been laid. Who has led the charge to unseal documents? The press, which is hardly surprising. That's their job. But we should not always assume that the press (especially the Saint John press) puts the best interests of the public first.

The public does not, so far as I know, have a right to complete transparency in an ongoing investigation, because that can jeapordize a prosecution and poison a potential jury pool. Court documents would be made public after trial, I assume. The public does have a right to regular status reports from the police on ongoing investigations - which we get, though we might not like them - and I think we fairly expect to know if the public is at risk in the aftermath of the crime. But again, you would have to ask a lawyer, I'm just repeating the information I have absorbed over the years, it may not be accurate.
_________________
www.potzrebie.com | http://themarshallway.tumblr.com/ | http://timewounds.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's frustrating in the age of the internet that journalists still want to provide their analysis before, or instead of, just making an actual document public.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
portcityadam



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: window shopping for new clothes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott M wrote:
portcityadam wrote:
I understand that the results take a while to process, but if these search warrants reveal that someone in the family (or anyone for that matter) is the subject of ongoing DNA analysis it is in no way a presumption of guilt for that party. Right?

I'm pretty sure the public have a right to know the status of the investigation (especially documents from a very early stage) as they fund the force. But I don't see the absolute relation between the release of these documents and immediate charges being filed, if that's what's being suggested.


You'd have to ask a lawyer (or cop). I suspect the main reason for the court sealing documents is to prevent rampant public speculation in a case where no charges have been laid. Who has led the charge to unseal documents? The press, which is hardly surprising. That's their job. But we should not always assume that the press (especially the Saint John press) puts the best interests of the public first.

The public does not, so far as I know, have a right to complete transparency in an ongoing investigation, because that can jeapordize a prosecution and poison a potential jury pool. Court documents would be made public after trial, I assume. The public does have a right to regular status reports from the police on ongoing investigations - which we get, though we might not like them - and I think we fairly expect to know if the public is at risk in the aftermath of the crime. But again, you would have to ask a lawyer, I'm just repeating the information I have absorbed over the years, it may not be accurate.


Yeah, I'm not overly aware of the exact procedure either (obviously) but I do know that search warrants must be released to the public unless explicitly being place under a sealing order by a judge. It doesn't sound like that had been done here, rather just journalists being told there are delays. This is pretty much what I don't understand. If there has to be a seal put on these specific warrants, fine, do it, but from the language used in these news stories, it sounds like the request for a seal was dropped yesterday, and now there are just "delays."
Again, maybe this just has to do with the rhetoric used in the pieces I've read, and I misunderstand.

Also, I would like how common it is for families to examine public documents before they are made public. Maybe its normal, but it sounds kinda funny to me.
_________________
www.itsadammowery.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a judge who originally sealed the documents for 6 months and also a hearing where the documents were resealed for 6 additional months. This time around, the judge said he wanted to hear from lawyers from the media before automatically agreeing to extending the sealing of documents again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
portcityadam



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 3020
Location: window shopping for new clothes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoot the Band wrote:
There was a judge who originally sealed the documents for 6 months and also a hearing where the documents were resealed for 6 additional months. This time around, the judge said he wanted to hear from lawyers from the media before automatically agreeing to extending the sealing of documents again.


Ok, right, that's how I understand it. So right now the sealing order is up and they aren't out because of a request by the victim's family, I guess?
_________________
www.itsadammowery.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website    
Shoot the Band



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 9737

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

portcityadam wrote:
Ok, right, that's how I understand it. So right now the sealing order is up and they aren't out because of a request by the victim's family, I guess?


Yeah, a lawyer for Dennis Oland as well as a lawyer representing 'The Oland Family' have been at each of the hearings. My understanding is that those lawyers had not seen the documents until the crown agreed to release some information yesterday, and they themselves were arguing that they should have a right to see it first. If I understand correctly, they got those documents throughout the day yesterday and this morning, and have asked the judge for time to go through them before they are made public. The judge has given them until August 16th.

Just my understanding from news stories and journalists tweets.

Presumably the argument is that if certain names and details are made public they will prejudice certain jurors in the future. Which seems like a reasonable argument to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail    
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Giraffecycle.com Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group